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Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 375	Posted - 2016.02.04 21:48:00 - [1] - Quote ID G4f wrote: This thread is not a debate on whether you think it is a good idea, just a head count of people like me who joined dust to not have to start over again. If you biomass us, i will not be returning to start over. As it will just keep happening. The continuous nature of the universe is what brought me here & will be the only thing that will tear me away. If anyone else will not be returning without their character's x up & be heard. Even if it doesn't mean anything. I joined Dust (late) with the intention to never stop playing, like I joined EvE to never stop play that game either. My feeling has always been that Dust should port in totum, to a new platform, preferably the PS4, but if PC is the way they're going, that's got to mean that they plan to keep it going (like EvE) for a VERY LONG TIME. You don't have to port if it's on PC, you just make sure the code is compatible with the new version of whatever OS you're using. As such, I advocate a direct transfer of EVERYTHING, that this character and my Gallente alt have acquired during my 6 months of actually playing this game (I am a Beta vet that didn't play until recently). For me it wouldn't be that drastic if they didn't transfer everything - I've only been active for 6 months, so have less than 6 months SP to show for it on both of my alts. But being an EvE long-liner, I actually EXPECT vets to have significantly more skills than I do, and I expect that more skills will be progressively added over time so that noone can max out their skills and therefore I would never be able to match the skills of someone who started years before me. I totally expect this view to be unpopular with people who see Dust (and EvE) as "just a game", but for EvE long-liners, this is the way it appears to them. If Dust moves to PC, it will join the "long-liner" world and will in the course of time CEASE to be "just a game" for most who continue to play it. I advocate that right from the start, there be a richness of levels of skills in the player base. The type of players Dust on PC would attract over time would be more the sort that look for that themselves.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 380	Posted - 2016.02.05 21:36:00 - [2] - Quote Kobija Hakaisou wrote: I also recently started playing. Within the last half year. I have never felt as instantly connected to a game as i have dust. It is my favorite stuff. And in the past few months since i started, ive spent 100s of dollars on this game. I spend 100 dollars on it every month because i wanted this game to flourish. My wife, FURRY GIRLfaulkner spends almost as much. We were under the impression tht we wouldnt lose our things. I dont mind my skills being reset. That has to happen. I dont mind not keeping our aur or isk. What i mind is the possibility of all the money i spent going to waste. If the new game comes out and all i get is a unique skin that indicates i played dust then i have to ask myself is it worth it for me to play the next game as well? Why would i keep pouring my money into a company that is going to do this to me? CCP, i understand what your doing. And im not blaming you for the most part. But please. Give those of us that supported and funded you so readily out of admiration and love for your product something to remember dust by. Something that feels fair. I dont want to start off with game breaking equipment. But i also dont want you to just hand out skins and call it even with us. Im just nervous is all. If we arent rewarded for our loyalty with something of equal value then your setting a standard that those of us who do as i have cant continue to fund. I want a persistent world like eve. You wouldnt reset them. Why reset us? Even if its just in the form of blueprints or perhaps having two ranking systems in your new game. New players can be enlisted. Us dust loyalists can be officers. Give us seperate loyalty rank bonuses or something. Give us something that new players can look at and understand what weve done. Make it apparent that this was our house. We have supported YOU with ungodly amounts of money. And we want to trust you that we can continue to do so without getting a hollow thank you and a golden star on our arm for all our sacrifices to help you grow. I hope that you can find a solution that is not game breaking and is not simply asthetic. But more so, i just hope you care enough to try hard to find that solution. Thats why i supported you each month. I was proud of my minmatar. All of my minmatar apex suits. My accomplishments in this game felt real to me. Dont throw those in the trash. Give the veterans a legacy in this new game. Petition Signed. It would actually be simpler and easier for CCP to just keep the Dust database, intact, with everything in it, and build a new front end that does the same thing on PC as Dust does on PS3. Personally, I don't want to see that - I would rather see a persistent world, fully integrated into the EvE universe, a sandbox that has constant battles, not these lobby shooter things, that people can join at any time. Hey, there's a battle in JITA, let's go help them out! That's the sort of thing I want to see - a meaningful world (NOT a "game") that actually has some bearing on what's going on in the rest of EvE. But it would be good to just see them keep the existing database and build a new PC front end. That would be better than nothing.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 380	Posted - 2016.02.05 21:43:00 - [3] - Quote The Modern Creature wrote: BPO's as you know them will not be transferred or maybe not in the new game at all. They're trying to run on the EVE Economy and BPO's just completely break it. If you want to keep your BPO's the only solution I see that will be coming is that you'll have to manufacture them yourself. Edit: Petition not signed. BPOs as used in Dust break the EvE economy. But BPOs themselves don't. EvE uses BPOs and BPCs (blueprint copies with limited runs) to manufacture items which can be bought for ISK. We actually need BPOs if we are going to be able to have unlimited numbers of anything. And we need the ISK to buy the materials and manufacturing time to make them, so we should not be so ready to give up our ISK, either. I think there's a place for BPO style suits - Militia level suits with Militia level equipment that doesn't run out, similar to the clothing items we have in EvE, where likewise, once bought we don't lose them. But anything better than that should be bought for ISK and made from BPs (either Originals or Copies).
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 380	Posted - 2016.02.05 21:46:00 - [4] - Quote Fierces Dave wrote: TIGER SHARK1501 wrote: Fierces Dave wrote: I'll keep my name and maybe a little badge or something to show that I was from Dust 514 but it would make the game highly unbalanced if we transfer SP and ISK. This is a new game using IDEAS from Dust and lessons learned from Dust. This is not a port people. I'd like to point out EVE vets have significantly more SP than a noob. There is also different secs in the game where they can't attack you if you are a noob. Of course they can attack you - but Concorde will take them out as a consequence. In EvE, anything's possible, even the illegal stuff. Everything just has real consequences.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 381	Posted - 2016.02.05 21:49:00 - [5] - Quote Amalepsa Zarek wrote: The whole SP issue is not a problem but rather a benefit (revenue increase) for CCP. As in the next patch you can BUY Skill Points for ISK. http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/exploring-the-character-bazaar-skill-trading/ YES: You will be able to buy Skill Points so: Carrying the Skill Points through will not break anything at all. It will rather keep the no-lifers/enables/leaders to stay and continue leading and organizing. No. You won't be able to CREATE skill points, only buy them from someone who's already earnt them. Yes, you will be able to buy skill points from other people but they will lose those skill points in the process. Not quite what you're indicating here.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 381	Posted - 2016.02.05 21:57:00 - [6] - Quote jade gamester wrote: ID G4f wrote: This thread is not a debate on whether you think it is a good idea, just a head count of people like me who joined dust to not have to start over again. If you biomass us, i will not be returning to start over. As it will just keep happening. The continuous nature of the universe is what brought me here & will be the only thing that will tear me away. If anyone else will not be returning without their character's x up & be heard. Even if it doesn't mean anything. You have to look at it logically speaking. This game has been abused with isk glitch to the point we can all run proto forever. And SP wise I'm sitting at 108mil. With 12 proto suits, and proto tank. Bringing that to the next game will instantly cause problems for new players. I think visualisations and bpos should be brought over, and also a reward for what loyalty level we are in dust but that's sensible to me There is absolutely nothing wrong with bringing everything you have into the new game! So it instantly causes problems for new players, how is that any different from the existing Dust, or EvE for that matter? There is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping absolutely everything you have and porting across to the new game, in totum. That can be done and it's completely viable, with just a new front end running on PC. What I really don't want to see, though is just another lobby shooter, like Dust has become. As part of the EvE universe, Dust on PC (DoPC) should be a sandbox, like EvE, were battles aren't scheduled, don't start and finish according to some sort of rules, are part of the EvE war system where appropriate, and otherwise, just generally part of the PvP world of EvE. Battles should EXIST wherever and whenever two or more players decide to duke it out, and there should be the scope for more people to arrive on either side to make it as even or as one-sided as those people want. This is what EvE is about, not the stylised battles of Dust. Wherever possible EVERYTHING should and could be transferred across, just retaining the old database and building a new front end. Perhaps initially, it could stay in the JALS (Just Another Lobby Shooter) format before moving to a proper sandbox DoPC. But everything could and should transfer across.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 382	Posted - 2016.02.05 22:00:00 - [7] - Quote Murder Medic wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: The Modern Creature wrote: BPO's as you know them will not be transferred or maybe not in the new game at all. They're trying to run on the EVE Economy and BPO's just completely break it. If you want to keep your BPO's the only solution I see that will be coming is that you'll have to manufacture them yourself. Edit: Petition not signed. BPOs as used in Dust break the EvE economy. But BPOs themselves don't. EvE uses BPOs and BPCs (blueprint copies with limited runs) to manufacture items which can be bought for ISK. We actually need BPOs if we are going to be able to have unlimited numbers of anything. And we need the ISK to buy the materials and manufacturing time to make them, so we should not be so ready to give up our ISK, either. I think there's a place for BPO style suits - Militia level suits with Militia level equipment that doesn't run out, similar to the clothing items we have in EvE, where likewise, once bought we don't lose them. But anything better than that should be bought for ISK and made from BPs (either Originals or Copies). I mean if you just think of your starter suits as starter ships than it's not unreasonable at all. Exactly. If you arrive in a station in your pod, you're instantly assigned a brand new starter ship. You don't even have to buy it - it's part of the basic insurance agreement you have in the game. I see no difference between that concept and the idea of basic starter suits.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 382	Posted - 2016.02.05 22:04:00 - [8] - Quote TIGER SHARK1501 wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: The Modern Creature wrote: BPO's as you know them will not be transferred or maybe not in the new game at all. They're trying to run on the EVE Economy and BPO's just completely break it. If you want to keep your BPO's the only solution I see that will be coming is that you'll have to manufacture them yourself. Edit: Petition not signed. BPOs as used in Dust break the EvE economy. But BPOs themselves don't. EvE uses BPOs and BPCs (blueprint copies with limited runs) to manufacture items which can be bought for ISK. We actually need BPOs if we are going to be able to have unlimited numbers of anything. And we need the ISK to buy the materials and manufacturing time to make them, so we should not be so ready to give up our ISK, either. I think there's a place for BPO style suits - Militia level suits with Militia level equipment that doesn't run out, similar to the clothing items we have in EvE, where likewise, once bought we don't lose them. But anything better than that should be bought for ISK and made from BPs (either Originals or Copies). Dust isn't EVe even if it's in that universe and connected . Also worth mentioning saving 6,000 isk on one fitting won't make me win or break the economy. PC did that for dust long ago No, Dust isn't EvE but it's part of the same universe and if it's on PC we have the opportunity to move to the more integrated economy and gameplay that we were supposed to have in the beginning. So apparently we couldn't have that because of the PS3, well, now we're talking about PC which is virtually unlimited in comparison. BPOs aren't a problem for the EvE universe, only the way they are used in Dust. If DoPC were to implement EvE-style BPO use (and I believe it would have to if it's to be truly integrated) then it would simply mean you have to pay ISK for the materials for your "unlimited supply" of whatever your BPO creates.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 382	Posted - 2016.02.05 22:06:00 - [9] - Quote TIGER SHARK1501 wrote: Fierces Dave wrote: I'll keep my name and maybe a little badge or something to show that I was from Dust 514 but it would make the game highly unbalanced if we transfer SP and ISK. This is a new game using IDEAS from Dust and lessons learned from Dust. This is not a port people. Also worth pointing out. Are vets in EVE able to sell their skills to people that haven't or don't wish to grind? Yes. They can now sell their skills. But of course, they lose them in the process.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 382	Posted - 2016.02.05 22:08:00 - [10] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: You will keep your name and that will be it. You will be lucky to keep your AUR and any BPOs you have and all that AUR spent on boosters has been lost and used in vain. Why are you pontificating? How do you know this? Don't tell me it just makes sense to you - as far as I can see it makes more sense to keep the existing database and just build a new front end. But that probably will be too simplistic.

Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 383	Posted - 2016.02.05 22:11:00 - [11] - Quote TIGER SHARK1501 wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: You will keep your name and that will be it. You will be lucky to keep your AUR and any BPOs you have and all that AUR spent on boosters has been lost and used in vain. But...but....my Council's Rep Tool. Exactly. EVERYTHING can be kept, if CCP wants to. Creating a brand new database is a helluva lot harder than just using the existing one with a new front end for DoPC. New functionality is the only reason they would change anything, and that can be done as part of the transition process, or even after the new system is implemented.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 383	Posted - 2016.02.05 22:16:00 - [12] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Kobija Hakaisou wrote: We paid for it. We want it. If you pay for a lifetime supply of...jerky...and i tell you after half a year that we dont want to give you any more, you should be refunded in some way. Just a heads up, you signed no such contract with CCP that you'd get a lifetime supply of anything. If you thought that's what you were getting, you need to learn to be a smarter consumer. The nature of videogames that are hosted on external servers is that the plug can be pulled at any time, and for any reason. If you went in too deep with Aurum purchases then I feel bad for you, but at the end of the day you were buying temporary pixels... they may have been 'permanent' in-game, but unfortunately there is no such thing in real life. The nature of the EvE universe is persistence... No there's no such contract, other than the EULA, but there is a reasonable expectation that if you pay out money for something you will get what you paid for. If that's "unlimited", "infinite", or any other permutation of the infinity symbol that's against all BPOs then you should expect to be able to keep using it, at least in the EvE universe, for as long as it exists. EvE will shut down eventuatlly, one day, maybe, perhaps after a few generations of new players have passed through, perhaps, just maybe. But until then, if you've paid for a BPO, a skin, or anything else that's supposed to be perpetual, we should have access to it.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 383	Posted - 2016.02.05 22:26:00 - [13] - Quote TIGER SHARK1501 wrote: Not to mention a newer playerbase you could have a tiered system. You wanna tangle with noobs? You can wear the same level of stuff as them. But! That misses the entire point of the EvE universe where absolutely anything can happen. In EvE PvP (sorry for the oxymoron), people can and do take on others of completely different capabilities, and sometimes that works out differently from what you'd expect. If a noob takes on a vet, most likely that noob will come off second best. If a vet takes on a noob in hisec, the vet will come off second best because of violation of the hisec rules. In losec or nullsec, ANYTHING goes. In hisec, noobs are relatively protected. It won't mean that you can't be attacked, only that your attacker will definitely lose a ship. It's a different world from the one that most Dusters are used to. It's a better world than what Dust has become, with a lot more opportunities.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 384	Posted - 2016.02.05 22:40:00 - [14] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: Kobija Hakaisou wrote: We paid for it. We want it. If you pay for a lifetime supply of...jerky...and i tell you after half a year that we dont want to give you any more, you should be refunded in some way. Just a heads up, you signed no such contract with CCP that you'd get a lifetime supply of anything. If you thought that's what you were getting, you need to learn to be a smarter consumer. The nature of videogames that are hosted on external servers is that the plug can be pulled at any time, and for any reason. If you went in too deep with Aurum purchases then I feel bad for you, but at the end of the day you were buying temporary pixels... they may have been 'permanent' in-game, but unfortunately there is no such thing in real life. The nature of the EvE universe is persistence... No there's no such contract, other than the EULA, but there is a reasonable expectation that if you pay out money for something you will get what you paid for. If that's "unlimited", "infinite", or any other permutation of the infinity symbol that's against all BPOs then you should expect to be able to keep using it, at least in the EvE universe, for as long as it exists. EvE will shut down eventuatlly, one day, maybe, perhaps after a few generations of new players have passed through, perhaps, just maybe. But until then, if you've paid for a BPO, a skin, or anything else that's supposed to be perpetual, we should have access to it. I'll agree that it's a weird edge-case as far as this goes, but the post from CCP made it pretty clear that the new game will be like Dust but not actually Dust. If it were a more straight-forward 'Dust514 is being ported to PS4' then yea, I'd say that a full transfer would be appropriate. But I think CCP have realized how badly they messed up the economy and have deliberately avoided stating that they're continuing Dust on PC so they have a chance to start fresh. You paid for items in Dust, but now Dust is over. In a while there'll be a new New Eden FPS, but it's not Dust. All true. I only said it was possible and the easiest option, but I personally would like to see quite a lot change, particularly around the integration into the rest of the EvE universe and the persistence/sandbox aspect. That can be still done with a database modification, keeping the existing data where appropriate and altering it as necessary for new functionality. Speaking as an ex-DBA (database admin), I still think it's easier than starting from scratch.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 404	Posted - 2016.02.06 21:56:00 - [15] - Quote TIGER SHARK1501 wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: TIGER SHARK1501 wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: You will keep your name and that will be it. You will be lucky to keep your AUR and any BPOs you have and all that AUR spent on boosters has been lost and used in vain. But...but....my Council's Rep Tool. Exactly. EVERYTHING can be kept, if CCP wants to. Creating a brand new database is a helluva lot harder than just using the existing one with a new front end for DoPC. New functionality is the only reason they would change anything, and that can be done as part of the transition process, or even after the new system is implemented. Like I said, we have no idea what they'll do. We don't know what or if anything will transfer. Names are useless in scope. If I knew I'd get to keep my stuff I will definitely 100% return because I would feel what I put into the game would still be around to enjoy. I understand that this will be a new game and we may get nothing, as such I am prepared for that reality. I just don't feel having BPOs (basic) or skins are game breaking. I mean heck most people given the chance would run Proto all day. Eh, we shall see. BPOs in the EvE world are used differently from those in Dust. If the new Dust is integrated more completely into the EvE universe, be prepared for BPOs that don't give you "unlimited" anything, but still require materials and manufacturing resources (which you pay for) to make what you use. The upshot of this is that in the EvE world, EVERYTHING has a BPO. So proto suits and weapons can be "unlimited" by just buying the BPOs, the materials and the manufacturing time and churning them out. Or you might like to actually do that and then sell them to others that don't want to bother with all that. For a profit of course... ;)
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 404	Posted - 2016.02.06 22:02:00 - [16] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Technically we could keep our SP, CCP have geared EVE to a way that a new player can be competetive even against guys liek my EVE toon who are 12yrs old, be it accelerated progression for the first few weeks/months and introducing smaller tier ships with roles that were once skill intense. Now the game is moving to PC CCP couple introduce the idea i had of linked accounts between EVE and DUST2.0 where EVE subs will grant certain monthly perks to the DUST2.0 accounts in a way that ESO players who sub get a monthly allowance given to them of various items and gold. that way the guys who have piled loads of cash into boosters to get SP don't miss out too much, but new players from EVE can benefit from their EVE sub helping them grow in DUST2.0, and of course, it may lead to an increase in EVE subs if those of us that may want the extra perks can get 2 games for 1 sub I would actually really like to see my EvE account interchangeable with Dust 2.0. If they're in the same universe and on the same platform, why not? If Dust is truly integrated into EvE, there's no reason this can't be done. They may choose not to do it of course, for other reasons, like keeping the method of payment different. I think that would be a substantial retrograde step. I'd love to see EvE and Dust fully integrated so you can just log out of one and into the other with the same character, who has skills in both. The only difference would be the front end. Of course that was not possible with the PS3, because the accounts had to be different to incorporate PSN, but on PC, that will not be the case.